WINMOR--A New HF Transmission Protocol for Winlink 2000

Looked at the video a couple of times. I'm not able to tell from the GUI if WinMor is an exciting positive addition to the EMCOMM toolbox or just one more digital variant that might further fracture the delivery of EMCOMM messages.

I've had a positive attitude toward the Telpac/Paclink/CMS/PMBO product, it's apparent capabilities and it's support. Spent a lot of time trying (in vain) to convince my ARES peers that it was worth a try.

I was disappointed with the short life of my own Win98 Telpac. And now that I've procured a new WinXP desktop, a new WinXP laptop and I'm working to bring my SCS PTC-II on board, I can't help but be concerned that the current wl2k suite might go sour about the time that WinMor comes out of Beta.

It would be good to see some indication on the wl2kemcomm group about the WDT's intentions relating to coexistence or replacement, or whatever.

respectfully,

ed - ag1m

k4izn..... Great! Now eveyone interested in WL2K on HF can participate.

I just wonder if both modes (PTC modem + sound card) can be supported by one computer + TRX at a RMS?

Sound card solutions need more resources and have more variables than a external modem. The power of the computer, the OS, and the quality of the sound card and sound card settings play a important role.

As Lor says it is user driven ....

Gert, OE3ZK
OE3XEC sysop

Looks like a great addition ... just hope that it will work with VISTA!
73 de K4YCR

It is time that more people have access to Pactor 2&3 using cheaper system as it is out of rage for most Amateurs to test
Cheers,
Moe

I'm ready for Winlink 2008 beta tester here in Finland!

BR//73// Juhani "Yussi" Tuovinen OH7TE

Some thoughts:

1) While I applaud Rick's work, I have to wonder how long it might be before it is fully vetted in the field under real world conditions. As we all know, a multitude of unanticipated problems and issues can arise, and it can take some time to produce a product that is mission critical ready.

2) What thought has been given to the marriage of Pactor and
WinMor on the same system, and how it would work? On my system, for example, I could/would not simply replace my Pactor modems with WinMor as I have users who are married to Pactor for a variety of reasons and they could/would not change to WinMor. Thus, any solution would have to support both - not the easiest proposition since the radio audio is usually bidirectionally hardwired directly to the Pactor modem and thus not easily accessible to a soundcard. Perhaps the audio and PTT could be multiplexed or ANDed between the two, but I don't know enough about the protocol at this juncture to postulate.

3) I have to wonder how many problems would be created by offloading the protocol from a dedicated processor (SCS Pactor Modem) to the user's computer. Many Winlink users, particularly Emergency and Marine users, are using low end computers with minimal processing power and sound cards, and that may open up a multitude of support and operational issues. Just read through any of the forums to see how much trouble many have with soundcard digital formats in general. Winlink, by definition of its purpose, has to be extraordinarily robust and stable under adverse conditions.

4) We all know that Pactor 2 and 3 work extraordinarily well under extremely adverse path, noise to signal, and propagation conditions. Will Winmor ultimately? We don't know at this juncture. I suspect that Winmor will never be as fast or, perhaps, even as robust as Pactor and thus Pactor will continue to be the protocol of choice for serious users. Winmor will likely find more favor among casual Winlink users and those who use Winlink infrequently such as in EmComm drop kits.

73s

Tom K6TGT
K6CYC Winlink Sysop and Chairman
09/08/2008

Just wonder is this originate from the SCAMP development!

Guy

I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO TESTING THIS MODE ASAP
THERE A LOT OF PK232 USER`S THAT THOUGHT THEY HAD PACTOR AND FOUND OUT THEY DIDNT HAVE THE RIGHT FIRMWARE AND ARE NOT GOING TO UPGRADE THESE FOLKS ARE IN WAITING TO SEE IF WINMOR IS GOING TO DO THE JOB

WE ARE LOOKING FOR ITS RELEASE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE

KF4WBS/NNN0LES

I am looking forward to using WINMOR. I have a Rigblaster pro, so Paclink MP won't work with it on HF since it is a soundcard type device. I haven't tries Paclink MP yet on vhf packet with my Rigblaster, but am told it will work there.
Hurry up WINMOR!!

WinMore is a good idea but like others will it be adequately supported?
PacLink MP for me has been a big disappointment it is quite buggy on my older computer.

WinMore seems to be a very interesting option.
The way I interprete the info abt the licencing issues I believe the answer to many of the bloggers question abt coexisting of Pactor and WinMore in an RMS is:
The the creators of SCS may build in WinMore as an extra mode in the TNC (like PSK31), and let it be stby in a new kind of common TOR mode..like PACTOR and WINMORE... F.ex called PacMore, hi.
Should be possible.
The SCS PTCII itself may be stby in both amtor and pactor at the same time, like the Kantronics TOR mode made it possible to be stby in Amtor, Pactor AND Gtor at the same time.
This is up to Rick and the SCS team.
If the SCS team are allowed to do this, a part of a possible deal may perhaps be some economical support from them when buying tncs for the RMS stations? Thus supporting the whole WL2K system.
And the end users out there can this way freely choose how to operate.
Just a thought.
73 de la7um Finn

I'm soooo glad you are working on HF Winlink using a soundcard mode!! Our ARES folks are fully on board with winlink and I use it regularly through our RMS at our county EOC. Look forward to getting it and going HF. Go SOUNDCARD operation!!! Larry

I am a current user of the Winlink system by connecting to VU2GMN on HF at chennai using a KAM+ as the SCS pactor modems are out of my budget and this works great for me . I am looking forward to use the WINMOR and this will definatly help more users on the winlink system especially from VU land as even TNC like KAM + are not easily available.

Wishing Rick and the team all the very best with WINMOR and the ARRL / TAPR conference.

73
Nitin
VU3TYG

I use the Winlink system with a FT817ND and a Signalink USB on VHF. I am looking forward to Winmore to add HF. I have a sailboat and here on the west coast north of Vancouver there are not a lot of RMS Packet Stations.

I would be interestred in being a beta tester.

Jack
VE7DFJ

Winmor looks great! I can hardly wait to give it a try. If we get effective data transfer rates on HF that are comparable to PACTOR III, then look out EMCOM. We will have lots of folks using the HF WL2K RMS stations.

I enjoyed the video. Thank you for taking the time to post it Rick. Looks like this will be a fun app to use. I hope that peer to peer connections are possible in an early version.

Thank you to the WLDT for all you are doing to support emergency communications.

73,

Jim, WA2EWE, AAT9AF

There are, as expected, lots of reasons it can't work... all expressed before its release.
I'm sure there will be some problems, but let's get it out there and start to evaluate and develop it seriously. Things will never get done if everybody waits for someone else to do it.

73
Mike KB1CTC/NNN0HNG

Have been waiting for something like Winmor for many years, really interesting technique using the soundcard!

I hope U will be able to connect to any klient user and not only to a RMS site, and a feture for attached files is implemented.

I would also be interestred in being a beta tester.

73's de Bertil - SM0FUS

I guess that they have all the Beta testers of this new mode. If there are any openings I would appreciate consideration. I have been into different digital modes for over twenty years and have held several ARRL SECTION positions including SEC and now DEC and work close with our State served agencies.

Thank you
73
Kenny
ARS KG5KS
DEC B ARKANSAS
kg5ks at yahoo dot com

We have a SCS modem for longhaul P3 in our county EOC but have been unable to fund one for our mobile command post. WinMor would give us HF message capability in the mobile CP but will we be able to communicate via HF with our EOC thru the SCS modem using WinMor or will we have to add a second HF transceiver in the EOC for HF email messaging with our mobile CP?

All,
Thanks for your interest and questions. A few short answers for now. You can read the DCC paper and presentation for more details.

WINMOR does not run ON or through the PTC II. That would be contrary to the objective of trying to provide P2 or P3 like throughput without the need for the PTC II. WINMOR just uses the sound card, a computer and a sound card interface and the WINMOR virtual TNC software.

WINMOR does not implement Pactor (P1,2 or 3) and is not compatible with Pactor. It is a non proprietary stand alone mode and will be fully documented and published. I plan to have a preliminary spec posted on the winlink.org web site in a few weeks.

WINMOR will require a reasonable CPU and modern multitasking OS( Win 2000 and later). It is currently averaging about 20% CPU loading on a modest 1500 MHz Celeron. No, it won't run on your 20 year old 386 running DOS 4.0! An external sound card (preferrably USB integrated with the sound card interface) is strongly recommended.

We anticipate adding WINMOR to the client Paclink MP and RMS Severs IN ADDITION to the other modes (Packet, Pactor and Telnet)already supported. Most users would use it to replace Pactor 1 (higher throughput and robustness). The performance should definitely be much better than P1 and approach P2 and P3 (see preliminary graphs in the presentation). WINMOR would share the radio etc but of course you can't have a WINMOR connection and a Pactor connection running simultaneously!

Initially at least there will be no peer to peer mode in Paclink MP. It has nothing to do with WINMOR... WL2K is a message SYSTEM and for that to work requires getting messages to the CMS for routing. Peer to peer is just exchanging messages between 2 parties. WINMOR stands for WINlink Message Over Radio.

The RMS would be set up to run WINMOR and/or Pactor from the same radio. If the RMS sees a Pactor connect request on a scanned frequency it would answer and disable the WINMOR and vice versa.

Beta testing won't start for at least 3 months. I want to get all the low level protocol bulletproof and optimized before we start any extensive on-the-air testing. But it works well enough now to give me confidence it will work and achieve good througput and robustness.

Thanks for your interest, feedback and encouragement.

Rick Muething, KN6KB
Winlink Development Team

Wouldnt this make the best out of two systems?

1: Most easy HW adaption on a RMS if it already is having a ptc2, or will go on with pactor and add on WinMor. Not necessary with maximum standard on the pc in those cases.
Adjustment of the RIGs ALC and all similar. Possible to use the good DSP for WinMOR in the ptc2s if you already have them and will go on serving pactor.

2: Scanning will easily be organised through the pt2pro and USB if you already have organized that.
If you no more can use what you already have, then you must organize a CIV or other ways to enter TTL levels for those rigs and use this for all the purpose.

3: The greatest benefit is for the stations out there, who of course can freely choose which system and hw and how to implement.

Maybe I miss something here.
73 de la7um Finn

Hello,

I'm just getting into this hobby and have an IT background. Everything digital interest me. I was looking at email over HF and was disappointed to see the expensive PACTOR modem requirement.

With an open development like WINMOR entry into this mode would be a lot easier. Investing in a $100 SignaLink soundcard that can be used for other things as well makes more sense then investing in expensive close hardware.

If the time comes, I'd be happy to lend a hand writing installation documentation etc

Bas (VE7RIJ)

I'm excited about the possibilities of this new mode.
I would like to volunteer my services as an alpha/beta tester
if that is possible. Thanks for your consideration.

Best regards,

Gary E. Kohtala - K7EK

Winmor could be VERY important to the ARES community. We have locally discussed it's value to ARES groups needing longer range (as opposed to VHF range) e-mail during times of emergency.

I'm very interested in becoming a beta tester and piloting this program for my group.

Thank you,

John Aaron
KI4ESV
DeKalb County, GA. ARES